Empty Liposomes
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Thread: Empty Liposomes

  1. #1
    Jpshogun's Avatar
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    Empty Liposomes

    Disclaimer: (As most of my friends here at SCT already know), I'm just an emergency physician working in Melbourne (AUS), with some layperson-level knowledge in chemistry and inexhaustible interest in DIY skincare. I have no personal or financial connections with this company (below) in Europe. There's no conflict of interest existent here.

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    Having struggled with soy lecithin granules, which take up large space in serum (based on our previous discussions, my educated guess for the best composition is lecithin : actives = 5 : 3 in weight), and with egg lecithin, which won't pass the strict Australian Customs, I started to take interest in "empty liposomes" available only in Europe (none available in US or here in AustralAsia).

    Then Gerti kindly introduced me to Natipide II. I'm sure she can provide us more information in detail, but it seems to to be a great alternative (less space-occupying and very effective). The main issue, besides the fact that the company webpages are in German or other languages, is the fact that those companies in Europe do not seem to have any default options for countries outside Europe on their order pages.

    Gerti kindly found out that there's a company (in Germany?) who are willing to ship overseas.

    http://www.dragonspice.de/

    I contacted them via "Kontakt", and they wrote me back in English. Paypal payment and the order was done!

    If you know of any other companies willing to ship overseas, please add it to this thread. Thanks!

    JP


    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." (Albert Einstein)

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  3. #2
    Liposomes not that hard to make from raw ingredients. I have doubts about the stability of liposomes you buy and they load with your active. You might ask for examples and stability data.

    Do you have access to :

    • Rotary evaporator (Buchi RE III Rotavapor or equivalent)
    • Ultracentrifuge (100,000xg capability, Beckman L8-55 or equivalent)
    • Sonicator


    The rest of what you need is standard lab equipment.
    I can send you a recipe.

    Dr. J

  4. #3
    Banned DragoN's Avatar
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    Quote: egg lecithin, which won't pass the strict Australian Customs,[




    Bustards.

    WTF? EGG.


    Dangerous to Australians???

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  6. #4
    Jpshogun's Avatar
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    Oh, Dragon! Don't even start. There are more than a handful of things that do not pass the customs here, and I cried and screamed enough for it. Certain things, especially, the cosme-pharmaceuticals, are imported from overseas and sold here. Since it's been arranged that you cannot buy certain things directly from, let's say, US companies (in order to protect the local distributers?), there's no other choice for customers other than buying locally. Since there's no competition here, most items are more than double as expensive as the original price. Today, I bought two small bottles of Metamucil capsules and a medium-sized bottle of fish oil (I'm having another experiments...... feel free to ask Fawnie for details!), it cost me $99!!! And.....there's no such thing as unlimited broadband internet access here.... My headache continues.

    JP


    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." (Albert Einstein)

  7. #5
    Banned DragoN's Avatar
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    What utter CRAP!!!!!

    ...where there's a will there's a way.....

    So what did they do with it? Send it back? Or keep for themselves?

    Bustards!!!!

  8. #6
    Jpshogun's Avatar
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    The notice from Australian Government Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry stated that they'd discard the item unless I arranged it to be exported from Australia within 30 days. Unfortunately, I did not receive this notice (dated "16th of Dec") until the 31st of Jan (when I came back from Japan). So I assume they had already destroyed it.... Ugh.

    JP


    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." (Albert Einstein)

  9. #7
    Jpshogun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrJ BFT View Post
    Liposomes not that hard to make from raw ingredients. I have doubts about the stability of liposomes you buy and they load with your active. You might ask for examples and stability data.

    Do you have access to :

    • Rotary evaporator (Buchi RE III Rotavapor or equivalent)
    • Ultracentrifuge (100,000xg capability, Beckman L8-55 or equivalent)
    • Sonicator


    The rest of what you need is standard lab equipment.
    I can send you a recipe.

    Dr. J
    Dr. J.

    All I have is a small-sized sonikator (for jewel cleaning), which I have used to DIY liposomal formation.

    This thread (below) should be able to convey to you where we (SCT DIY'ers) are in terms of our DIY liposome "technology".

    https://www.skincaretalk.com/t/29618/...osomes-for-diy

    Most of us here (including myself) do not have access to any of the sophisticate machines such as rotary evaporator or ultracentrifuge device. If you have any advice about what else we can do to improve our DIY liposome-forming techniques, without using any special or expensive equipments, please kindly share it with us. We'd all appreciate it.

    I also would like to know....

    (1) what can be added to increase the stability of liposomes (I hear adding polysorbate80, tocopherol or phytosterol may do....)?

    (2) what is the scientifically proven best weight ratio of lecithin against actives. Based on some limited data available, I personally came to a conclusion that 5:3 of lecithin:active ration may be the most optimal. Any opinions?

    Thank you.

    JP




    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." (Albert Einstein)

  10. #8
    I have ordered from dragonspice and I'm very satisfied. Their service is great and the shipping costs are the best so far. I have bought around 4kgrs for 9,70€ shipping costs. Lot's of European sites sell liposomes which as far as I know is special processed lecithin and you just replace your lecithin emulsifier with this liposome lecithin. They are a bit expensive anyway.
    My non-gmo soy lecithin powder is from Germany and I'm really happy with it, I paid 12€ for 500grams, including shipping.

    In my opinion, my current regimen has helped my skin way too much which I do not care so much about those liposomes and other technologies. I do get informed though of what's going on in cosmetology. I still use my lecithin for my DIY sunscreen and my night serum.

  11. #9
    Have you looked into SLN (solid liquid nanoparticles)? If your actives are hydrophilic (e.g. peptides, proteins) they penetrate better than liposomes, are more stable in an emulsion (less spontaneous degradation, longer shelf life), and are actually easier to make. In addition to standard lab stuff (filtration, centrifuge) all you need is a high speed spinner (I can show you where to get one quite inexpensively).

  12. #10
    Jpshogun's Avatar
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    Dr. J;

    I have to admit I've never heard of SNL. But I'd love to learn about it. My problem is the fact that I do not have any sophisticated machines (including filtration and centrifuge stuff), let alone a high-speed spinner. If there're any affordable machines you recommend, which may help me to create SNL ('m afraid to say I don't know anything about it), please kindly let me know.

    JP
    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." (Albert Einstein)

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