[LLucy]

I want to change up my routine in Nov. I'm going to stick with RA, but I'm thinking of adding a copper peptide treatment. For anyone who's tried CP's, would you please share your opinions?

Thanks!

 

[Lexi2009]

See my post on warnings. I would NEVER recommend these unless you have bad skin. It literally ruined my skin head to toe and aged me about 15 years in 5 months. It is called the "uglies" and you can find people all over the internet who are told this will pass and many more who swear by them. It does not pass for many of us and many people who had good skin and wanted better skin (that was me) have ended up very big losers. These are not studied to the extent they should be, the mechanism of action is questionable and unproven, results vary from excellent with some people to catastrophic with others (I am one) and I just would never trust using something that is a gamble.

You are going to get tons of people with great experiences, I know this and do believe them which is why I tried, but in retrospect I wish I had done more research.

 

[Goatie]

I am one who uses it and I still do. I really love what CP did for my eyes. I also feel it did help to firm up my skin. Not everyone has the same experience with skin care products. It is trial and error. I like the Protect and Restore the best. I use it during the day and RA at night. I did notice what some call the uglies, my dark spots seem to have got darker. However I took care of that with TCA peels. It is basically keep trying until you find the exact right routine for your skin and even then I change to keep my skin guessing!

 

[LLucy]

Thank you Lexi and Goatlady.

Lexi, I have read of your experience here and I hoped you would reply so I could ask you some questions. You too GL, since you have responded.

I've read that it's important to start with the low %, not the "Supercop". Lexi, did you do this, or did you start out with the more potent stuff? Also, to start out with, is it best apply them every other day or so until your skin becomes accliamated as is recommended with RA? Or does one start with daily application?

Is strict sun avoidance recommended when using CP's? Or rather judicious sun exposure, always wearing SS ofcourse?

What brand did you use Lexi?

Thanks for recommending the brand you use GL, where do you get it if I may ask? It reduces lines around your eyes? That's something I'm looking for. (As well as, forehead, 11's, upperlips, blah, blah, blah). Have you tried different product lines? The Pickart line was recommended to me on another form - googling CP products brought up quite a number of competitors - so I'm looking for comparisons based on personal experience.

Lexi, as I understand from posts of yours, at 37 you still have a pretty much unlined face. Wasn't the CP damage mostly to your arms and legs? What were you hoping to accomplish skin-wise with CP's? Please understand I am not discounting your experience, I've read of others who've had bad experience with CP's as well - I'm just wondering if you may have used it differently than I may. I'm looking for something to help reduce the lines on my face along with RA, I'm not bothered by my hyperpigmentation particularly. And I am not bothered at all by the way my skin looks on my arms and legs.

In any case, at this point I'm still just doing research - on CP's as well as other things.

 

[Lexi2009]

Llucy--I think most people turned on to CPs use Loren Pickarts SkinBio products, I did. His site is very "convincing" and no they do not recommend sun avoidance, in fact not at all. He recommends healthy tanning and even sells products meant to do that.

Copper peptides were first meant and used to prevent poor scarring. Funny enough this is formed by over-production of collagen. One would ask then if this somehow normalises collagen production why then would you want something to firm skin that slows collagen in scar healing? There are now more sites I have found that discuss the actual method of damage done by copper peptides and no I did not use them excessively. I used them around my eyes and on my body as I would any lotion and even mixed them often with aha's as recommended.

The damage was first seen on my neck, then on my arms, legs, body and hands. Over a 5 month period using them as recommended I slowly saw myself age dramatically. I wish I had a before and after. Honestly I went from having skin that friends of mine literally would say was "invincible and defied odds" to looking much older than my years. I am mortified by all this and while I have improved dramatically through painstaking measures, it is not complete and I am not sure it will ever reverse.

My eyes did also look better as GL and I say this because I had three lines under my eyes for ages, they went away completely but you know what? As soon as I stopped the CP altogether I now have worse skin around my eyes (I have also found this to not be limited to my experience through many forums online and women with similar experiences).

My personal belief is that there are too many conflicting reviews for me to have tried these if I had read the negative. I may have thought "Oh well I will be different" but I certainly would have started over a very small area and perhaps a very unimportant area. I am talking about crepe-paper skin even around my genital area which does not see the sun! There is no way this was natural aging, this was sudden and followed use of CPs and sadly is experienced by many.

For me it is like saying, well many people will be helped by retin-a but some people may actually get older looking. I just would never risk my skin, not even for the eyes which I am now regaining too as they aged when I STOPPED the CP. It is too much of a risk for me to recommend it. If I were 50-60 with severly aged skin I would try it as it could not get worse?! At my age or with good skin I would never recommend it to anyone. I warn everyone I know away from it in fact. Nobody knows how emotionally damaging it is to see your skin age dramatically as you were chasing youth and by a self-inflicted means. Sun damage takes decades, this took months.

 

[Goatie]

I bought mine from Dr. Pickart site. I did start slow. Got the lowest then went up from there in hindsight I probably should have went even slower. Every other day. I noticed a difference in my eyes very quickly. For me that was the most notable change I saw. I am still using the Protect and Restore for the most part daily now. As I said I do change around but RA at night always. I was looking for something to get my fine lines and perhaps plump up my skin which I fee it did do this. I have been using it since Feb of this year. So a good 6 months. I use it only on my face.

 

[Goatie]

Lexi do you think you may have some kind of allergic reaction to copper or perhaps another ingredient in the lotion? Is that possible? Just curious it sounds like a horrible reaction to the copper itself. Not unlike one person can get a bee sting and just get a red mark where others would die? Best way for me to explain it.

 

[Lexi2009]

Lexi do you think you may have some kind of allergic reaction to copper or perhaps another ingredient in the lotion? Is that possible? Just curious it sounds like a horrible reaction to the copper itself. Not unlike one person can get a bee sting and just get a red mark where others would die? Best way for me to explain it.

Too many people have had this reaction to call it allergic. There are people who will say that they had allergies but it is not that. It is a cell-mediated response from copper which can break down collagen. This happens very often. It is a hit or miss. Some people can take them and they do "wonders" others end up permanently damaged. Go look at the forums on Skin Biology and you will see every time someone brings up the "uglies" Laurence Pickart will get ultra defensive and say that you need to "keep going" or slow down and start again slow. It is not right, people, myself included, have never got better from these so-called "uglies" The theory is always from the CP advocates' and Pickart's view that the uglies is a purging of bad skin and the new better skin is right around the corner...you will even have people who claim to have gone through it and come out with "better skin than ever". But the fact is that I had found several sites where people discussed permanent damage identical to what I discuss and some have had it for years now.

My skin aged YEARS. Not a sun-damage, not natural aging, but in 5 months it aged YEARS. It is not an acceptable risk in my opinion and there is at least one researcher who has discussed the mechanism of damage on a forum I had read.

 

[LLucy]

You know what? You've convinced me Lexi.

Now on to research something else. But what? Adenosine maybe.

 

[Lexi2009]

You know what? You've convinced me Lexi.

Now on to research something else. But what? Adenosine maybe.

I am happy to have Llucy--I do think the risks outway the potential benefits.

I want to research a product called HTY (hide the years). It is allegedly good but little proof! The main ingredient is Palm Oil (I have ethical concerns on that). I would love to research a new cutting edge prouduct! Tell me if you come up with anything. Years ago Kinerase was touted the new retin-a, whatever happened to that?

 

[LLucy]

Lexi,

Awhile back I downloaded the skin rejuvenation infopak from smartskincare.com. I was re-reading it last week and came across a part where Dr. T. speculated that RA, CP's, and _______ the long scientific name for kinetin, may work better in combination than any of the treatments on their own. Subsequently, I've been trying to find information on both CP's and kinetin - the main ingredient in Kinerase. I know there was a study done in China where a kinetin + niacinamide solution was shown to reduce wrinkles. My impression is it was a small study.

I don't know if kinetin as an ingredient has fallen from favor, or has just been overshadowed by "newer" ingredients. Vit C, CoQ10, Reservatrol, Pomegranate and Acai seem to be showing up in products all over the place now. There seems to be a "fashion" aspect to skin care. One year something's really in the next year it's something else.

The supplement company, Beyond-a-Century sells a powdered form of coconut endosperm (a natural form of kinetin) I may order and experiment with. It's a bit pricey, so I'll see.

 

[Goatie]

I will probably drop the CP myself now that I have discovered RA and will soon be making the Vit C serum myself for daytime use. I think CP and Vit C should not be used together if I recall correctly. Lexi do you also do the DIY C serum?

 

[LLucy]

GL,

You can use both CP's and Vit C serum, but they need to be spaced several hours apart according to Dr. Todorov at smartskincare.com. Check out the site, there are forums devoted the separate treatments as well as many others.

 

[Goatie]

I knew there was something about the combo waiting or something but couldn't remember. So thanks! What has been your routine for the past few weeks? I just started RA maybe a month ago with the .05%. I got a little peeling and that was it. I will be using the C serum once I get all my ingredients.

 

[LLucy]

My routine? Must I? Ah well.
AM
Wash with plain warm water and worn washcloth; shave to exfoliate flakies if I feel like it
DIY C serum (differs because I experiment with additional ingredients)
Rice Bran Oil + Lycopene as tinted moisturizer

PM
Oil cleansing method
RA
Gold Bond Lotion with glucosamine/MSM/Niacin/DMAE/CoQ10 added

I also do facial massage/exercise throughout the day and dry brushing before treatments when I remember.

 

[Lexi2009]

I do DIY C as well. BTW---Todorov can tell you about the mechanism of CP damage. He was the one who had answered someone's post on that.

Goatlady--just a warning, I had always used RA and CPs were for about 5 months. My eyes did improve even more with both admittedly BUT when I stopped they got saggy. (The CP). You may want to slowly step down if you are using it around your eyes.