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Better guidance to younger skin types is imperative, DO NOT jump in with
both feet with any mixture at full strength. Even Rose Hip oil should be diluted with any available oil (Avocado, Olive. Meadowfoam is great to add)
I have seen reaction to Rose Hip oil at 20% concentration, remember anti-oxidant oils are best against free-radical formation (JoJoba, Rice Bran )

Decide on your solvent carefully, here is some info :
Make sure your Butylene Glycol is odorless, it is internally metabolized in the citric acid cycle, any impurities create odor - try Glycerin instead, see below

Butylene glycol is rapidly absorbed through any tissue, including the skin. It is rapidly metabolized to gamma-hydroxybutyric acid in animals and humans. Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid is a naturally occurring chemical found in the brain and peripheral tissues of humans. Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid is also rapidly metabolized into succinate through the tricarboxylic acid cycle within the body. Given in high doses, a neuromodulator effect can be seen.4 However, in the small doses used as a solvent in pharmaceuticals and nutritionals, there are no known side effects. In water-based products, a concentration of 0.5% butylene glycol, as a solvent, would be safe for topical use. edL: These low levels are generally impractical , I will look into side reactions for high dose cases, until then topically, B.G. looks harmless.

Now for Propylene Glycol :

# Ethylene glycol ingestion first affects the central nervous system (CNS). After a characteristic latent period, signs of inebriation may be followed by serious illness and even death, caused by toxic metabolites.
# Propylene glycol, which is much less toxic than ethylene glycol, is metabolized to compounds that are normal constituents of the citric acid cycle. This is one sites opinion. Now look at a 2nd opinion :

According to goldenbutterfly.net/harmful_ingredients.htm
Propylene Glycol (PG): Propylene Glycol serves as a Humectant - a substance that helps to retain moisture content. It is also a wetting agent and solvent, so it is used by many cosmetic manufacturers to facilitate the process of dissolving and combining ingredients. Propylene Glycol is widely used in skin cream, and many other personal care products. Propylene Glycol is also one of the key ingredients in embalming fluid, anti-freeze, brake fluid, hydraulic fluid, de-icer, paints and floor wax. The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Propylene Glycol clearly states: "Implicated in contact dermatitis, kidney damage and liver abnormalities; Can inhibit skin cell growth in human tests, and can damage cell membranes causing rashes, dry skin and surface damage." The MSDS also cautions: Acute Effects: "May be harmful by inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption. May cause eye irritation, skin irritation. Exposure can cause Gastrointestinal disturbances, Nausea, Headache, Vomiting and Central Nervous System depression." Propylene Glycol is toxic, and it will actually retards your skin's ability to maintain normal cellular regeneration.

If you rub a little P.G. on you hands, they get quite warm .... Hmmm.


tried Glycerin to dissolve Ferulic Acid ? 10% alcohol may help but use
95% ethanol , and by the time it heats on the waterbath, its gone.
use 50% of the Glycerin to start for higher alcohol, then add balance.

OK, would you prefer some science on the vit C & Ferulic acid ? will let U know when I have found a simple procedure ...

1. Ascorbic acid in water will have a pH of 1.5 , which will sensitise skin.
2. There are many Vit C esters which are more sensible, insofar as being oil soluble and having an ideal affinity with the skin matrix, acid is released slow
ie: an ester allows the vitamin to be bioavailabe much longer (12+hrs) and
because its oil soluble is more stable and deeper penetrating.
3. Tocotrienols are a superior vit E antioxidant synergist that should be incorporated. More on that later.
4. Here is an excerpt from an article which should help : Enjoy.

The Vitamin C Ester in our CE Ferulic acid is made of L-ascorbic acid joined with a fatty acid creating an ester bond. Our Vitamin C Ester in CE Ferulic acid stimulates collagen production plus it is fat-soluble, making it stable, non-acidic, completely nonirritating to the skin and offers maximum protection against free radicals at the precise spot that they do the most damage; the outside of the cell.

The Vitamin C Ester in our CE Ferulic acid also displays greater antioxidant activity in the skin cells than ascorbic acid does, and performs this vital task at lower doses. In fact, compared with ascorbic acid,the Vitamin C Ester in our CE Ferulic acid delivers 8 times higher levels of Vitamin C activity (Source: Journal of Cosmetic Science, January-February 2004, pages 1-12).

The Vitamin C Ester in CE Ferulic acid is more stable in topical solutions than its water-soluble cousin, Ascorbic Acid. This allows our Vitamin C Ester in CE Ferulic acid to maintain its efficacy while it delivers its incomparable benefits. Also, our fat soluble Vitamin C Ester in CE Ferulic will not produce the negative rash reactions that occur when products containing water-soluble ascorbic acid are applied to the skin.

CE Ferulic acid serum uses Vitamin E in the form of Tocotrienol which is 40 times stronger and more effective at repairing skin damage than traditional Tocopherol Vitamin E (Source: Journal of Nutrition, February 2001, pages 369-373). The Vitamin E from Tocotrienol in CE Ferulic acid is an active ingredient that has free radical scavenging, moisturizing, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant properties.

While the combination of vitamin C, E and ferulic acid appears to have clear advantages over vitamin C alone, a number of limitations remain. First, even though combining vitamin C with vitamin E and ferulic acid makes it more stable, some degradation still occurs and may still be a significant factor depending on the usage and storage conditions. Second, vitamin C is acidic and may be irritating for people with sensitive skin, especially at relatively high concentrations required for stimulating collagen production. There are alternatives allowing to get at least some of the benefits of stable topical vitamin C while minimizing skin irritation. This was covered in points 1 - 3.
 

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The Vitamin C Ester in our CE Ferulic acid also displays greater antioxidant activity in the skin cells than ascorbic acid does, and performs this vital task at lower doses

The post was quite long and I lost attention but I did catch the OUR CE Ferulic acid part. Who's?
 

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Ah you ARE the astute ones, Dash and Peri!

I don't like glycerin in my serum - too greasy; and ethanol is too drying. The tiny amount of propylene glycol that I use to dissolve my ferulic acid isn't "toxic".

This quote is from mountainroseherbs.com, a reputable source for organic oils:

"Directions for Use
Rosehip seed oil is considered a “dry” oil, meaning that it soaks into the skin easily, and does not leave a greasy residue. It is a wonderful hydrator, and penetrates dry or damaged skin immediately. This oil may be used straight from the bottle as a moisturizer, or can be incorporated into a cream, lotion, facial oil, or massage oil.because it is so gentle, rosehip seed oil may be used undiluted on the skin, even on sensitive skin. Rosehip seed oil is a safe, inexpensive, effective, and non-invasive product for preventing and healing damaged skin.



Skin | care | talk
 

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Vitamin C derivatives: skin benefits of ascorbic acid without the downside

Quote from this link:

Unfortunately, it appears that the concentrations of ascorbyl palmitate (ester C) achievable in skin care formulas do not boost collagen synthesis as much as vitamin C.
Thanks for the link. I actually went a few pages on and it says you can order a DIY Anti-aging infopack that is very informative. ANyone ordered this? It's $12 I thought it might be worth reading.
 

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Thanks for the link. I actually went a few pages on and it says you can order a DIY Anti-aging infopack that is very informative. ANyone ordered this? It's $12 I thought it might be worth reading.
I did get this infopack. I didn't have to pay for it and I don't remember how or why. It is on my other computer I will have to go to it later and see if it will show me how I went about getting it.

I haven't read through all of it. I don't know if I ever will-I learn just as much if not more by coming to this site-
 

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Discussion Starter #10
In order of responses : 1. the "our" was as quoted from source, not mine.
I would think the clinical result studies (quoted) may be "theirs". I am not affiliated with quoted articles or their assigns.
Currently I only create peptide complexes & Melanoma reducing serums.
I give then away free, and looking to set up A Dade Behring Dimension RxL
(which I purchased) with a pathology lab in the US for clinical trials.

After reading clinical studies for 3 years, they mostly bias in their own favor and a great example is the vit C / C - ester containing product list. There are huge differences between esters , bio-availability AND skin absorption.
In the body active Vit C is usually found attached to protein groups.
Anyone applying Ascorbic acid to their face at the concentrations suggested ( pH1.5) should be well aware of potential sensitivity. That is why some get the rash redness or spotty reactions.

2. regarding the Glycerin ... sure it sits on the skin - where it provides a
time release function for the ferulic acid (Glycerin is a humectant, more than compensating for the drying effect of that tiny bit of alcohol)
Glycerin has the bonus ( pref after 5 minutes of application) to provide
a skin-safe adhesive for mineral makeup - for those going that way...

3. and dash is quite right to say ascorbyl palmitate does not generate C needed for boosted collagen synthesis - My own work in C ester synthesis shows many ester variations certainly improving release in skin over the fatty palmitic acid (slow metabolic) variety. Keep in mind the palmitic C is used to protect packaged chips from oxidation (the oil on them), among other food related apps , and thus multi hundred ton use. Please, lets talk pharma or nutricutical products ... oh , and RoseHip oil whilst I use the cold pressed Deep Orange colored product in most serums, i am merely relating experience , folk with no suntanning are more prone to reaction ...
 

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ce 2 i have to say that your long messages do confuse me, but my personal experiences have been that i started off using a retinol cream and now im using my vit c serum in the mornings, i have never liked the sun really and dont have sun damaged skin and i dont get reactions from the vit c serum

i would of thought that anyone who does get a reaction from the vit c serum like with anything should stop using the product straight away

also surely like with any thing do a test patch and takes things slow before using anything on the face

your posts do interest me i just find them very hard to read personally, sorry
 

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Hello, I saw a product by Woodridge labs called perfect C. Its a powder C in a syringe and you mix it when you want to use it with the activating serum. Anyone know about it?
 

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Hello, I saw a product by Woodridge labs called perfect C. Its a powder C in a syringe and you mix it when you want to use it with the activating serum. Anyone know about it?
Welcome. I looked around and could not find the complete ingredient list for this product. No idea what the PH level is either. Or the % of vitamin C. That's bad news IMO.
It's cheap enough compared to proven commercial ones. That alone probably tells you something about the quality considering how expensive they usually are. Make your own C serum and you'll know exactly what ingredients, ph level, etc. are in your serum. And save a wad of cash to boot. There are recipes on this forum.

Woodridge Labs: Perfect C
 

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Welcome. I looked around and could not find the complete ingredient list for this product. No idea what the PH level is either. Or the % of vitamin C. That's bad news IMO.
It's cheap enough compared to proven commercial ones. That alone probably tells you something about the quality considering how expensive they usually are. Make your own C serum and you'll know exactly what ingredients, ph level, etc. are in your serum. And save a wad of cash to boot. There are recipes on this forum.



yep thats it. Well i did purchase so i guess i can try it. I did see some of the home made ones, i may get brave enough to mix my own
 
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