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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone who has seen some of my older posts knows that I initially found this site in despair over my very suddenly aged and crepe-paper like body skin. I initially attributed it to my tanning history coupled with an overly zealous exfoliation routine, specifically strong AHA use.

I have since been made aware of at least one person on this forum who has experienced something similar from using copper-peptides. At first I did not link my situation to hers, especially since this was not even brought up at my last dermatological exam.

Since this time I have done my own research in various medical journals as well as reading many horror stories similar to mine on many forums and am very sorry to report that, while copper peptide are great for some, they have a very real potential to damage skin!

Chronologically and with my skin type (Type III-IV) damage to the extent I am experiencing at present is not likely photo-aging and thus is neither intrinsic or extrinsic aging. What I found out in my quest for concrete research astounded me and I feel that I need to warn others.

Firstly, little is written on this subject. Studies generally agree that Copper Peptides are very good for wound healing. The use of CP's in cosmetic dermatology is limited to a few companies and most of the usage is based on findings of Loren Pickard, a Ph.D who has done research and developed SkinBiology's line of products and is largely credited with the findings that lead many to believe CP's are an important weapon in the anti-aging arsenal.

The problem is that this research is severely limited and based only on the presumption that damaged skin is injured skin. Unfortunately this is possibly not always the case and many factors, most as of yet unknown, work in tandem to cause aging.

The little research which contradicts Loren Pickard's findings is buried deep in a very small number of medical journals. As most are also theoretic none of this is widely discussed or accepted and as CP's are merely a cosmetic cream, the research is not promising outside the cosmetic industry.

The down side is that CP's have been found, on healthy non-ablated (not cut or injured) skin to cause a collagen and elastin BREAKDOWN! This is polar opposite to what one who treats would want. This is mediated by mmp-2 and mmp-9 and the articles, found on a secured medical site so sorry I cannot give a link, were written for the Journal of Invstigative Dermatology and can be purchased via their website for anyone interested or if you are a medical professional then you should be able to access them via most medical search engines under Copper Peptides and mmp-2/9 decrease.

To put it in lay people's terms--copper peptides are thought to be helpful in wound healing and Dr. Pickard has in fact done decades of research which has been substantiated by medical studies worldwide. BUT a wound and intact aged skin are not the same. A wound requires an increase in collagen production during the initial healing phase BUT excessive collagen causes scars...so decreasing levels of collagen are thus a good thing! So if initially CP's stimulate the production of collagen it is great for a wound, BUT then they need to slow it. So in theory the damage to skin from Copper Peptides comes with continued use as, opposed to the desired effect, they actually impede collagen production thus causing a LOSS of elasticity which in some is even greater than MANY years of sun damage.

This is not to say that those who use CP's ALL get this, that is not the case as it seems. But for some and possibly many of us this is the case. I personally am reeling from my experience with CP's and now definitively feel I have the answer as to why I experienced a sudden and rapid deterioration in my skin texture and as a result if I can help/save ONE person from this I will be happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You are welcome guys, thank Fawnie too who initially made me aware of her experience with CP's which in turn spawned me to research whether this may have been my issue which I am now convinced 100% that it was. The onset of my problems followed an intense period of using Skinbiology products all over my body and is the most likely culprit according to all I have read. I just hope nobody else experiences this!
 

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Some ppl however swear by them!

I think the key is to go very slowly with a very diluted solution and work up. Of course I jumped in with both feet and started with the middle % solution and didn't dilute it nearly enough. So no wonder the damage I got too. It took a very long time to undo my damage and I will not go back to Copper Peptides either. So be very careful if you do choose to use them, and follow directions carefully! This stuff should not be out there for amateurs like myself to use and get into trouble with.




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There are copper peptides in the hydrating serum that came with my BQ. Once that's gone I won't buy the product but will use just a straight hyaluronic acid serum maybe. Any other ideas? Besides, I don't like the interaction between Cu and ascorbic acid and who knows what else.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Fawnie--I am like you! I was head to toe in these daily and after you said that I woke up! I realised it was NOT the Aha's, not the scrubbing (had been doing both for ages with no damage) it was not even the sun! It all traced back to when I started copper peptides. Unfortunately because they are largely cosmetic, not even used in burn traumas which is the only real area they have been tested in, even dermatologists do not know much about them! Like you I used the strong stuff too, BUT for my decallotage for which I have successfully used the Neck, Breast and Decallotage formula which was much lighter. I do think they eventually will have a place but for now after having figured out what actually happened to me now and why I am staying very clear of these. I agree that these things should not be available to us. I have read so many stories like mine and your Fawnie that I am actually sad that people do use these. It is ironic but getting your hands on tested prescriptions is safer than getting your hands on some of these new wave anti-aging creams. I prefer to stick with the things I know and have been tested now. I am very mad at myself for not having researched this more thoroughly before jumping in.

Mirecka, I too have that serum and I do NOT use it! I just use hyaluronic straight now with babyQ!
 

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Lexi2009;41230Mirecka said:
I think that you are right; I'm going to toss it out. I have had some sagging at my lower chin near the sides of my mouth that I was attributing to weight loss and maybe some loss of muscle mass in my face; but now you have me thinking that it might be due to the copper peptides.
 

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Do those exercises mireckca!
ONE....and a.....TWO.....and a ....THREE!!

Move those feet and move that butt
Come on weenies lose that gut!

Works for the face too!



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Discussion Starter #10
I think that you are right; I'm going to toss it out. I have had some sagging at my lower chin near the sides of my mouth that I was attributing to weight loss and maybe some loss of muscle mass in my face; but now you have me thinking that it might be due to the copper peptides.
It is so easy to "attribute it" to something else. That is exactly what I did, after all, HOW could the anti-wrinkle miracle that so few cosmeceuticals even use do that to us? I swear, there is a reason that the only mainstream use is limited to one or two brands and while skin-care article after article laudes them, so few companies dare to use them! I am convinced most companies know if this and just stay clear of them. I swear Mirecka, I thought it was my sunning, scrubbing, aha use and even thought it was because I was not as "toned" perhaps as a year ago (crazy me!) NEVER did I think it could be the CP's but after reading the same story over and over I knew it was CP's, especially as I had it in areas that I rarely scrubbed and which never saw the sun BUT do see whatever creams and lotions I put on me! My entire body looks 10 years older than my face where I used only sparing amounts of CP's under my eyes. Definitely toss it!
 

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Lexi,

This was part of article I was reading on Copper Peptides:


While moderate use of copper peptides aids in skin regeneration, large amounts or excessive use can actually create the opposite effect, heightening levels of "free copper" which promotes free radical damage and collagen breakdown instead of preventing it. Excessive use can actually lead to accelerated skin aging, skin weakening, sag and wrinkles. For this reason, only use the recommended daily amount to avoid any negative side effects. There have been rare reports of copper peptide topical use and irritation and redness amongst individuals with sensitive skin, particularly around the delicate under-eye region.
 

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Lexi,

This was part of article I was reading on Copper Peptides:


While moderate use of copper peptides aids in skin regeneration, large amounts or excessive use can actually create the opposite effect, heightening levels of "free copper" which promotes free radical damage and collagen breakdown instead of preventing it. Excessive use can actually lead to accelerated skin aging, skin weakening, sag and wrinkles. For this reason, only use the recommended daily amount to avoid any negative side effects. There have been rare reports of copper peptide topical use and irritation and redness amongst individuals with sensitive skin, particularly around the delicate under-eye region.
Hey Momof2girlz, It makes you wonder how rare the "rare reports" really are?
 

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Yes Gailn and Momof2girlz---two things come to mind for me. Firstly, where you found this gem of an article Mom--it is hidden from most of us considering we have a relatively hard time sourcing this exact information! Now that you did find this which is geared toward the "end-user" you see they say RARE reports-well I disagree. Almost everyone I know who has used a CP has experienced redness under the eyes if not elsewhere, myself included. Secondly it is quite interesting that it touches on the collagen breakdown which is consisitent with the medical research (the VERY LITTLE I found) which discusses the mechanism of breakdown due to mmp-2/9 activity.

My conclusion is that Loren Pickard has done a great deal of research, that I will not take from him, but his research does not definitively show a long term efficacy of CP treatment on intact aged skin. It is consistent only with wound healing WHICH REQUIRES A SLOW DOWN IN COLLAGEN PRODUCTION. I think the public needs to be very aware and if they are not at least we on this site should be considering we are in this to beat age--not speed it along!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
They say a lot of interesting things in that article--in other words read between the lines. For example they talk about CP's being able to "regulate" collagen production, what they do not say outright is that while it stimulates collagen, it also down regulates which is why the scar heals more normally because over-production of collagen is stopped which actually occurs more often than not in a scar. In intact skin this would mean slowing collagen production in normal skin!

Also they do list the warning at the end as a footnote but I think that really should be in the body of the article! I will hand it to them though in that they do give a comprehensive and objective perspective.
 

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I wished I had seen this yesterday before buying "Neutragina visibly firm" which was recommended on another site. Now I don't know if I should stop using it, I bought it yesterday and only used it once.

I am 52 years old and needs a firming cream..I just signed up today and am going to read the posts but open for some suggestions.

I am really bummed out that my wonder cream is not wonder anymore....back to square one
 

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I wished I had seen this yesterday before buying "Neutragina visibly firm" which was recommended on another site. Now I don't know if I should stop using it, I bought it yesterday and only used it once.

I am 52 years old and needs a firming cream..I just signed up today and am going to read the posts but open for some suggestions.

I am really bummed out that my wonder cream is not wonder anymore....back to square one
Wonder cream/gel=retin-a (tretinoin)
 

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Periwinkle. Is Retin-a the best ? even for firming/tightening the skin? I do not have many wrinkles just my skin is not as tight anymore. Thanks
 

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Periwinkle. Is Retin-a the best ? even for firming/tightening the skin? I do not have many wrinkles just my skin is not as tight anymore. Thanks
You might find this thread interesting. Fawnie has a homemade brew on their somewhere. Also facial exercises should help. Regardless of whether the retin-a helps with firming/tightening, it's a must IMO.
http://www.skincaretalk.com/anti-agi...ightening.html

Here's a great site that many of us refer people to.

Topical Skin Rejuvenation Treatments
 

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To express another view, I have been using copper peptides for 8 years, with wonderful results. I am 58 years old, but I look much younger. I have no wrinkles, and very few fine lines. I attribute much of my skin's health, elasticity and suppleness to the consistent use of copper peptides over the years. I also use Retin-A. These two products together form the basis of my skin care.
 
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