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Need help with simple niacinamide serum

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46K views 87 replies 31 participants last post by  Carla123  
#1 ·
So I wanted to make a simple serum or gel with 4 % niacinamide, some aloe and hamamelis virginiana, which would be a DIY version of this:
LifeLink - Metazene
since i cannot ship the product to my country. With which substances would I need to combine those to make a gel or serum and in what proportions ? Any advice? I'm a DIY newbie
Image
 
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#2 ·
Evaluation of superoxide scavenging ac... [Free Radic Res Commun. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI
Have you got the extract?
What I can help you with is the basic B3 gel...and you can get fancy with N-acetyl D glucosmine as they work very well together.

You WILL NEED A SCALE....no ifs ands or buts.

It's easy though.

Re: Aloe...I am not keen on it...but you can use it. I don't prefer the feeling on my skin, no other reason.

I like algae extracts for many reasons including this one in particular:
HÃa9matologie

B3 soluble in water.

Really Basic Gel

HA powder 1%
B3 5%
Distilled Water 93%
Preservative 1%

You're off and running after that.

Sterilize everything. Use an alcohol...allow to air dry.
 
#39 ·
DragoN said:
Evaluation of superoxide scavenging ac... [Free Radic Res Commun. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI
Have you got the extract? I haven't found it for purchase.

What I can help you with is the basic B3 gel...and you can get fancy with N-acetyl D glucosmine as they work very well together.

You WILL NEED A SCALE....no ifs ands or buts.

It's easy though.

Re: Aloe...I am not keen on it...but you can use it. I don't prefer the feeling on my skin, no other reason.

I like algae extracts for many reasons including this one in particular:
HÃa9matologie

B3 soluble in water.

Really Basic Gel

HA powder 1%
B3 5%
Distilled Water 93%
Preservative 1%

You're off and running after that.

Sterilize everything. Use an alcohol...allow to air dry.
Click to expand...
Hey DragoN, need you... Coming back to our original conversation about that basic niancinamide gel. Turns out I might have rosacea/rosacea like flare-ups and I read a lot about how stuff with niacinamide and aloe vera helps the darn redness, so I want to make a simple gel that will alleviate these symptoms somewhat and I want to make it similar to the metazene one.
Inrgeds of that one are:
de-ionized water
aloe barbadensis leaf juice
niacinamide 5 %
hamamaelis virginiana (got a source for that one)
glycerin
proplene glycol
carbomer
TEA

there's also parabens, which of course i dont want to include - I wanna toss everything that irritates, so id need your help with suggested tweaking of ingredients - what i want to leave there is the B3, aloe, and hammammelis extract.
I just need a little guidance as to gram amounts cause im not good with percentages. Let's say i wanna make 30 grams of the stuff, how would I proceed if such a concoction is possible and what of the rest of the recipe should i drop/substitute? Sorry for all the questions but buying the metazene, if at all possible, would prolly cost me around 100 $ total so I wanna see what I can do myself in me lab. Have to put all other cosmetics on backburner till damn redness clears and this could be useful for such times.
 
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#4 ·
Loveapples...it will be runny as water. The HA will thicken it up.

Why NAG?

Br J Dermatol. 2010 Feb 1;162(2):435-41. Epub 2009 Aug 28.
Reduction in the appearance of facial hyperpigmentation after use of moisturizers with a combination of topical niacinamide and N-acetyl glucosamine: results of a randomized, double-blind, vehicle-controlled trial.

Kimball AB, Kaczvinsky JR, Li J, Robinson LR, Matts PJ, Berge CA, Miyamoto K, Bissett DL.
Source

Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02114, USA. harvardskinstudies@partners.org

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Topical niacinamide and N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG) each individually inhibit epidermal pigmentation in cell culture. In small clinical studies, niacinamide-containing and NAG-containing formulations reduced the appearance of hyperpigmentation.
OBJECTIVES:

To assess the effect of a combination of niacinamide and NAG in a topical moisturizing formulation on irregular facial pigmentation, including specific detection of changes in colour features associated with melanin.
METHODS:

This was a 10-week, double-blind, vehicle-controlled, full-face, parallel-group clinical study conducted in women aged 40-60 years. After a 2-week washout period, subjects used a daily regimen of either a morning sun protection factor (SPF) 15 sunscreen moisturizing lotion and evening moisturizing cream each containing 4% niacinamide + 2% NAG (test formulation; n = 101) or the SPF 15 lotion and cream vehicles (vehicle control; n = 101). Product-induced changes in apparent pigmentation were assessed by capturing digital photographic images of the women after 0, 4, 6 and 8 weeks of product use and evaluating the images by algorithm-based computer image analysis for coloured spot area fraction, by expert visual grading, and by chromophore-specific image analysis based on noncontact SIAscopy for melanin spot area fraction and melanin chromophore evenness.
RESULTS:

By all four measures, the niacinamide + NAG formulation regimen was significantly (P < 0.05) more effective than the vehicle control formulation regimen in reducing the detectable area of facial spots and the appearance of pigmentation.
CONCLUSIONS:

A formulation containing the combination of niacinamide + NAG reduced the appearance of irregular pigmentation including hypermelaninization, providing an effect beyond that achieved with SPF 15 sunscreen.


NAG and B3 are quite an effective combination...I rather like them and they are easy to work with.

This study focus is hyper pigmentation, however these actives are are far more useful than that singular aspect.
 
#5 ·
Thanks Dragon, I was thinning about making a DIY with B3 for a while, too... The study, you quoted refers to the reducing of hyper pigmentation. Does B3 have other anti aging properties??

Now,

HA powder 1% - HA = Hyaluronic Acid?
B3 5% - which consistency is meant here - powder, gel?


If I corporate NAG, how should the whole mixture look like (percentage-wise)?

Is a B3-serum much less effective without NAG?

Thanks for your time!
Image
 
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#6 ·
NAG= 2%
B3 and NAG are white water soluble powders.

The effect of N-acetyl-glucosamine on s... [J Cosmet Sci. 2009 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI
Reduction in the appearance of facial hyperpig... [Br J Dermatol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
Exogenous N-acetylglucosamine increases hy... [Arch Dermatol Res. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Niacinamide: A B vitamin that improves aging f... [Dermatol Surg. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Topical nicotinamide compared with clindamyci... [Int J Dermatol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI
Evaluation of anti-wrinkle effects of a novel cos... [J Dermatol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI


The combination is quite a nice synergy. Increases endogenous HA production within the skin, aids in DNA repair, increases ceramide production in the skin, leading to reduced TEWL...etc,etc....it's quite a power house.

For that mix, I would add the water soluble E because I can. And B5 at 3% because it is very nice on the skin as well. All water soluble and easy to work with.

Weigh it, shake it....and you're done.
 
#7 ·
Thank you, Dragon, I have already ordered a scale and some actives!
Image


Just to make sure: the proportions with NAG would look like that:
B3 - 3%
NAG - 2%
HA - 1%
Distilled Water 93%
Preservative 1%

Could please answer the two questions:
- which consistency should the B3 have (or which it usually have)?
- Does HA actually mean Hyaluronic Acid?
Image
 
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#8 ·
1. B3 no usual consistency unless you mean the powder...free flowing tiny crystals.
2. HA= hyaluronic acid, preferably the heavy weight, as that will give you a good thick gel consistency.


B3 - 5%
NAG - 2%
HA - 1%
Distilled Water 91%
Preservative 1%

Vitamin E water soluble at 1% and Dexpanthenol at 3%....will make a very nice cloudy gel serum.

Get everything into solution before adding the HA, then shake and set aside. Done.

You can turn that into a Retinol Gel as well...or one with algae extracts in it....pretty endless what you can do with that.
 
#14 ·
#12 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by

B3 - 5%
NAG - 2%
HA - 1%
Distilled Water 91%
Preservative 1%


Quote: Originally Posted by

You can turn that into a Retinol Gel as well...or one with algae extracts in it....pretty endless what you can do with that.


How could one turn that into a Retinol Gel? by replacing the B3 and NAG? with either retinol acetate OR retinyl palmitate? and at WHAT %

I am kinda very confused about that part. or do I still keep the B3 and NAG and add 2 or 3% of retinol???

and regarding the algae extract, can I just replace that with the distilled water? or at least part of it? I like to use algae extract for its benefits.
 
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#13 ·
1. Easy.
2. Yes or no, if you don't want to.
3. No, need Retinol, Vitamin A acetate.
4. 0.1%- 2% depends on YOUR skin tolerance.
5. Same as #2.
6. Yes. but not too much over 25% or you get the face pull thing going on. Depends on the ambient humidity.

Retinol 2% gel/ serum with B3/NAG and algae extract.

B3 5%
NAG 2%
DEX/ B5 3%
Sea Emollient 25%
H20 31.5%
Retinol 2%
HA 1% hi mol wt. 30%
Vit E water sol. 1%
phenoxy 0.5%

1. Make up the HA1% before hand.
2. Get your powders into solution
3. Add B5 and stir till all incorporated.
4. Add the HA and Sea emollient and blend till homogeneous
5. Add preservative. Blend.

Done.
 
#24 ·
ok, you are awesome dragon. seriously...i'm frickin thrilled that a cosmetic company hasn't stolen you away as a formulator...dawns on me now and again how all of these recipes would cost $$$ if it came with a high end label.

my question: wondering if i could use a ready made retinol product for this serum. i have afirm 3x on hand (equivalent to 2% strength, i believe).
 
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#15 ·
Nooo...that's a gel HA 1% is the powder. Not the ready made serum. But I can see why it is confusing.

Hypothesis: The epidermal permeability barrier is a porous medium

www.medicaljournals.se/acta/content/download.php?doi=210...

A great disservice is done when one hangs onto absolutes, when at present few can be stated. The 500 dalton rule is one of them as well. It is an often but not always.

Many aspects will affect penetration. In this regard, people with dry skin will have the advantage. Concentration gradients, etc...have an effect. The interstitial spaces are not fully understood. pH and ionicity, endogenous rates of enzyme mediated conversions...the list goes on.

Does it deliver? Yes. How much? Unknown. I am not up to a punch biopsy test to verify it. From my own observations...yes.

Dermaroller ....
Image
Back to the basics....To each their own though.
.
 
#16 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by

Retinol 2% gel/ serum with B3/NAG and algae extract.

B3 5%
NAG 2%
DEX/ B5 3%
Sea Emollient 25%
H20 31.5%
Retinol 2%
HA 1% hi mol wt. 30%
Vit E water sol. 1%
phenoxy 0.5%


I am a bit confused re. the HA1%
is that 30% of the HA powder? or is it 30% of a 1% DIY HA solution.

also, what does DEX/ mean BEFORE the B5?

thank you so much for that great recipe.
Image
 
#19 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by

Vit E water sol. 1%«


this was the recipe for the Retinol 2% gel serum with B3, Nag and algae extract.

I was ready to make the recipe when I stumbled on a problem. Don`t know why I didn`t notice that before....
Image


what exactly does that mean
Vit E water solution 1%
Image


maybe I am just missing something there..
I need a coffee
Image
 
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#25 ·
Image
Thank you Jules00

I have a different motivation than a cosmetics formulator. I want to stop the hands of time and turn back the clock....I don't care too much what it looks and feels like...I want results. Fortunately, mother nature has tons of lovelies to work with that are both directly beneficial to my old hide and feel nice at the same time
Image

AFIRM 3X


Water, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Emulsifying Wax, Glycerin, C10-30 Cholesterol/Lanosterol Esters, Acrulates Copolymer, Cetyl Ricinoleate, Cetyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Benzyl Alcohol, Cyclomethicone, Bisabolol, Retinol,Stearic Acid, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, PEG-10 Soya Sterol, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Triethanolamine, Disodium EDTA, Tocopherol, BHT, Ascorbyl Palmitate.
Quote: Originally Posted by

my question: wondering if i could use a ready made retinol product for this serum. i have afirm 3x on hand (equivalent to 2% strength, i believe).


The ingredients in that are very simple. Too many fillers for my preference. No matter how you tried to incorporate the others, you will dilute the Retinol concentration. It could be done...but you will sacrifice the Retinol %.

The price on that is not bad. $40.00 for 30 grams. Better than the high end hoohoo with bodiddly for actives present and fluffed up with fillers of uselessness.
Quote: Originally Posted by

dawns on me now and again how all of these recipes would cost $$$ if it came with a high end label.


DIY is a high end label!!! It's completely unavailable and very rarely to be purchased, and only if the formulator feels like it. Exclusivity of the highest order.
Image
And it can be tailored for your specific skin type, needs and preferences. *sweet* That is IF you DIY it...but if you are lucky and find a willing formulator, that is another story, then I expect them to zing a reasonable amount for the Time involved, Still a far more potent product in the end than any market available label.

Walk on the Wild side....you'll not go back to the shop for your skin care needs.
 
#38 ·
DragoN said:
Image
Thank you Jules00

I have a different motivation than a cosmetics formulator. I want to stop the hands of time and turn back the clock....I don't care too much what it looks and feels like...I want results. Fortunately, mother nature has tons of lovelies to work with that are both directly beneficial to my old hide and feel nice at the same time
Image

AFIRM 3X


Water, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Emulsifying Wax, Glycerin, C10-30 Cholesterol/Lanosterol Esters, Acrulates Copolymer, Cetyl Ricinoleate, Cetyl Alcohol, Dimethicone, Benzyl Alcohol, Cyclomethicone, Bisabolol, Retinol,Stearic Acid, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, PEG-10 Soya Sterol, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Triethanolamine, Disodium EDTA, Tocopherol, BHT, Ascorbyl Palmitate.
The ingredients in that are very simple. Too many fillers for my preference. No matter how you tried to incorporate the others, you will dilute the Retinol concentration. It could be done...but you will sacrifice the Retinol %.

The price on that is not bad. $40.00 for 30 grams. Better than the high end hoohoo with bodiddly for actives present and fluffed up with fillers of uselessness.
DIY is a high end label!!! It's completely unavailable and very rarely to be purchased, and only if the formulator feels like it. Exclusivity of the highest order.
Image
And it can be tailored for your specific skin type, needs and preferences. *sweet* That is IF you DIY it...but if you are lucky and find a willing formulator, that is another story, then I expect them to zing a reasonable amount for the Time involved, Still a far more potent product in the end than any market available label.

Walk on the Wild side....you'll not go back to the shop for your skin care needs.
Click to expand...
hmm, with all those fillers, and a reduction in the 2% strength, probably not worth it to diy b3 and all the other nice ingredients into it. i keep breaking out from store bought anything lately and i'm thinking that it has to be sensitivities to chemicals.

i would like to diy this recipe at some point though. really liking all the lovely things in it. i need something for nights that i don't want to use RA.
 
#26 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by

I have a different motivation than a cosmetics formulator. I want to stop the hands of time and turn back the clock....I don't care too much what it looks and feels like...I want results. Fortunately, mother nature has tons of lovelies to work with that are both directly beneficial to my old hide and feel nice at the same time


A fancy exotic sounding name helps sell overpriced useless mainstream products = 0 results I'm using Ise Oil at the moment sourced from the tropical forests of Iceland very rare
Image
used by Dolphinz and the natives for centuries
Image
 
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#30 ·
Quote: Originally Posted by

A fancy exotic sounding name helps sell overpriced useless mainstream products = 0 results I'm using Ise Oil at the moment sourced from the tropical forests of Iceland very rare
Image
used by Dolphinz and the natives for centuries
Image



Image


Fawnie, I think it's seal oil...but I could be wrong...although to be fair, it's not Emu chicken fat for the face. And I could be wrong there too. But what we do know for absolute certainty is that Ise Oil is very very rare and uber expensive and therefore we are certain that it works at erasing the lines and wrinkles and the pretty pdf tells me so, so it must be true.
 
#32 ·
DragoN said:
Image


Fawnie, I think it's seal oil...but I could be wrong...although to be fair, it's not Emu chicken fat for the face. And I could be wrong there too. But what we do know for absolute certainty is that Ise Oil is very very rare and uber expensive and therefore we are certain that it works at erasing the lines and wrinkles and the pretty pdf tells me so, so it must be true.
Click to expand...
Linky for the Ise Oil Pdf please
Image
seal oil is probably very compatible with the skin don't sound as exotic as Emu though and there is probably a lot more of the Emu stuff available easier to rear n catch etc
Image
 
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